This is “The RAD Position” with ASRT CEO and
Executive Director Melissa Pergola, a podcast for medical imaging and
radiation therapy professionals.
Melissa Pergola: Hey there everyone and welcome back to “The RAD Position” podcast. I'm your host, Melissa Pergola.
Ray Arambula: And I'm her podcast partner, Ray Arambula.
Melissa Pergola: And tonight we are so excited to have Bill Brennan. Say hey Bill.
Bill Brennan: Hey there.
Melissa Pergola: And Bill, what do you do?
Bill Brennan: A few things. I'm kind of a unicorn at ASRT. I run the museum, I'm a health and safety officer, and I oversee facilities as well.
Ray Arambula: He ran IT [information technology] for a short period. Did you know that?
Melissa Pergola: Oh, get out!
Bill Brennan: Yeah, I was actually the chief information officer for a short period of time. And then they realized what a mistake that was, and then they brought Ray on, so.
Melissa Pergola: All right. Well, we won't be talking about your time running IT, but we will be talking about the museum.
And you've also been an unbelievable volunteer with long-standing history with our affiliates in the ASRT. And we are super excited to talk to you. And we also want to remind our listeners to subscribe.
Ray Arambula: Please subscribe. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, asrt.org/RADPosition.
Melissa Pergola: YouTube.
Ray Arambula: All the ways you can get connected with us.
Melissa Pergola: Yes, yes. And thank you for listening. So, we are excited to get started with this episode. So, I'm gonna do an introduction to Bill. Bill Brennan has been an R.T. for 40 years and an ASRT member for 26 years. During
his career, he has been a radiographer, a CT technologist, chief technologist, program director of three schools, director of radiology for two hospitals and a PACS administrator.
He is a past president and life member of the New York affiliate and has served on the ASRT Board of Directors for five years, including positions of president and chairman of the Board. He joined the ASRT staff in 2019 as associate executive director
of the ASRT Museum and Archives and currently serves as its executive director along with being ASRT's health and safety officer, thank you Bill, and oversees our Facility Management Department.
So, Bill, thank you for coming on with us tonight.
Bill Brennan: Thank you for having me.
Melissa Pergola: So Bill, you play an important role at ASRT, but you also, as I mentioned earlier, have a really long history of leadership. So, can you tell us a little bit about how you got into volunteering and leadership positions?
Bill Brennan: So, I guess I first got started on the affiliate level when my boss, who is a longtime ASRT member, Steve Herman, and also a previous board member of the ARRT [American Registry of Radiologic Technologists].
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: He was my boss and he voluntold me that I was going to be the editor of the newsletter for the state affiliate because he thought that I could write well. So that's kind of how it started. And then after that, I realized
how much I had to offer. And also, I really loved the people that I was volunteering with and, you know, it was a way to give back to the profession.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. I love that you were a voluntold. So many of us were voluntold into leadership positions, volunteer positions.
Ray Arambula: I'm sure there's been tremendous opportunities that opened for you both personally and professionally.
Bill Brennan: Oh, heck yeah. I mean, did I ever think I was going to be in Albuquerque running a museum, right? I'm never in a million years did I think that, so.
Melissa Pergola: What a great point, Ray. I never thought of that.
You know, being part of a membership association, there are the benefits of being part of that community and all of the things that we do, like, you know, protecting the profession and advancing the profession. But I even think about myself, and like
I said, I've never thought about this before. The different positions I've had came from relationships or interactions that I've had based on my volunteering, many of them.
And so not only giving back to the profession but personally helping you throughout your career, that benefit of being a member of an association and being a leader and building that network. Yeah.
Ray Arambula: Powerful.
Bill Brennan: Plus, you know, you're right, Melissa, as far as giving back the way you get out of it, right?
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: So, you know, when I think about all those years on the ASRT Board, and even on the New York state board, all the places I got to visit that I would never in a million years, would I go to, but I had that opportunity
and it has so enriched my life.
Melissa Pergola: All right, Bill. So now we're going to transition to our amazing museum.
So, I have several questions that I know I want to ask and Ray wants to ask, but first just tell us what you want to tell us about the museum.
Bill Brennan: Wow.
Melissa Pergola: That's really open ended.
Bill Brennan: Yeah, I'll say. It's my passion, right? You know, I goof around and I tell people that I belong in a museum because I'm so old, you know?
You know, the funny thing, and I, when I do my tours, I tell people that I see, you know, radiology has been around for 128 years, and I've been a tech for one third of that time, the entire history of radiology. So, you know, I am one of the artifacts
in that museum, but, I just, there's, I don't know, to see where we, how far we've come in such a short period of time, I think that's what I try to impart, to our visitors more than anything else that, you know, radiology is such an amazing field.
And, you know, we're just getting started.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: We're as, when you compare us to other fields, we're in our infancy and all you have to do is look down in that museum that covers, you know, that 128 years, and we've gone from, you know, hand developing and hand-blown
x ray tubes to MRIs [magnetic resonance images]. It's, you know, it boggles my mind and I'm in the field.
Melissa Pergola: So, there are other radiology museums across the country, right? So, what makes ours unique?
Bill Brennan: Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, I've done Google searches; I've looked everywhere. I cannot find another radiology-based museum anywhere in the world, whose main focus is the profession and not just the dusty artifacts,
right?
Not, not just that. And of course, that's a huge part of our museum, but there's a whole section of the museum, you know, that stresses our profession, our field, of radiologic technology, and the people that do it.
Ray Arambula: So, Bill, we have lots of artifacts within the museum.
Bill Brennan: About 2,000.
Ray Arambula: Wow. And you've told me a little bit about how you collect some of these things, how some are offered to us.
Can you describe that process? What may be some unique things around that?
Bill Brennan: Yeah. People from all over the country, some are technologists, some are radiologists, some are just, you know, folks, you know, whose father was in the field or whatever. And they call me up and they say, “I have
such and such,” or what I get a lot, believe it or not, is “I know this has something to do with radiology, but I haven't a clue what it is.”
Ray Arambula: What would you say is the oldest artifact we have?
Bill Brennan: It's an x-ray tube from 1897, so literally, 13-14 months after the discovery of x-rays.
Melissa Pergola: We'll be right back after this short message.
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Melissa Pergola: What's your favorite artifact?
Bill Brennan: That's a good, I have a lot of favorite artifacts. One of the coolest things I think that we have in the museum, what I call quackery, so—.
Melissa Pergola: Quackery?
Bill Brennan: Quackery. I did a video series on, I did two videos on the quackery and I'm using them. Things that people were trying to make a buck off of, right?
And they would just throw the label x-ray or radiology or radium on it. And, you know, the unsuspecting public would buy it because they thought, at the time, that x-ray or radium, it was going to be the panacea for all human ills, right? You know
but back then people bought these things, and two of the things in that display, the quackery display, though were dangerous, were very dangerous.
They really contained radioactivity and people drank the water that were in these vessels and got very sick from them.
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Bill Brennan: So that's, you know, it's a dark part of the history, but I find it fascinating. That's one of my faves, I think.
Melissa Pergola: Can I tell you my least favorite part of the museum?
Bill Brennan: I know what it is.
Melissa Pergola: So, every morning when I come in, I come through the museum, and I've been here for a few years now and I still jump three feet every time I turn the corner. Can you talk about our wax figures?
Bill Brennan: Our mannequins. Yeah. So, particularly the ones at the entrance of the museum. So, those two, we have Wilhelm Roentgen, the discoverer of x-rays. And, of course, we also have Eddy Jerman, the founder of the ASRT.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah,
Ray Arambula: They're very well done.
Bill Brennan: They are.
Ray Arambula: They're just creepy.
Melissa Pergola: They're scary.
Bill Brennan: They are kind of creepy, but they're in, you know, dress of the time of those gentlemen and they stand as guardians to the profession and to the museum. But my favorite mannequin.
Melissa Pergola: Ah-huh.
Bill Brennan: The one I always joke around. He looks like Freddie Mercury—
Melissa Pergola: Oh yeah.
Bill Brennan: —and he's got a great mustache, not as good as mine, but I always like him. He's over in our fluoroscopy display.
Ray Arambula: But what would you say are some of the artifacts in the museum that our guests find the most interesting?
Bill Brennan: That's a good question. You know, a lot would depend on their background and their age. So, we have members that come through, they love seeing the stuff that they used to use that we no longer use, you know, things
like the Hold-A-Babe, where we used to tie up babies to take x-rays of them.
So they wouldn't move, right Or chemicals for the dark room back when we used to hand develop films, right? You know, if you've been in the field a while, you reminisce about that stuff, right? There was a lot more art. You know, it's always been
an art and a science, but there was a lot more art back then.
That's what they like. A lot depends on their background. Like I've had electrical engineers come in and they're fascinated by a rectifier, which basically, it makes AC [alternating current] into DC [direct current].
Melissa Pergola: Yep. Yep.
Bill Brennan: All right. And it took something the size of this desk to do what your cell phone charger does now, right? But an electrical engineer will look at that and go, “This is genius,” right?
Melissa Pergola: Yeah.
Bill Brennan: And it is, right? From that time. If it's a kid, they love dressing up. We have some antique replicas of radiation protection aprons and goggles and those kinds of things. They love doing that and taking selfies. We
also have an interactive table called “Build a Body” where the, there's all different x-rays images from the whole body, and the kids can drag and drop it to where they think it belongs. So, it all depends.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. So, you mentioned kids, and of course, Dr. Heather Moore, our president, part of her initiative is increasing the pipeline, and we just went out to the Discovery Fest, right, for Big Brothers Big Sisters. Nineteen
hundred students came, and that was fun. We had that old gear there, and for them to try that on, and like, they thought they looked like minions, so that is a lot of fun.
What other student groups, and what else do we do at the museum for pipeline?
Bill Brennan: So, the Big Brothers Big Sisters thing, you know, that's new for us this year. Hopefully we're going to be doing another one of those in the spring. Yes. That's the plan anyway. But we have all kinds of groups come in.
CNM [Central New Mexico Community College], for example, they have a radiology program. That's the college for New Mexico. They come in with their students and those students are trying to enter the profession, right? But it's an opportunity for
us to show them where they came from, right? Cause you don't know where you're going — they think they know where they're going — but they don't know until you see where you came from, right? And that's, so we have those folks come
in all the time, as far as pipeline goes.
Ray Arambula: So, Bill, we get a lot of people come through the museum, I imagine. And I've heard there's just tons of great feedback that we get. What has been some of the more positive feedback that you've heard that's really stood
out to you?
Bill Brennan: Well, almost everybody leaves here learning something, you know. I get comments like, “I had no idea. I didn't know.”
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Bill Brennan: You know and that's the thing with our profession, right? Is that we're kind of the best kept secret, right? And we're trying to fix that, right? We shouldn't be a secret, right?
Melissa Pergola: Yep.
Bill Brennan: And people don't realize the history that the profession has, nor do they realize how much education and knowledge a radiologic technologist has to have, you know.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: They don't realize until I start explaining to them the physics of how an x-ray beam is created, right? Or the potential dangers involved in radiology, right? And the fact that, you know, we're hands-on people. So, I
think probably more than anything else is, “I had no idea.” And that phrase, when I get that back, I love it. And I often ask, especially when I get student groups in, I say, “Did you learn something today?” You know, and
inevitably, they all do.
And the ones that are in x-ray programs, they leave here, I think, with a newfound pride in the profession. I think those comments are important to me.
Ray Arambula: Well, I can imagine that that feels really good. And someone who's very passionate about what they do, it’s definitely got to feel good. Now the museum is open to the public.
Bill Brennan: By appointment.
Ray Arambula: By appointment. So can you describe a little bit to our listeners what that process looks like?
Bill Brennan: Sure. Well, it's very informal and it's very easy. Basically, you just need to send me an email, right? Or if you call the ASRT, that'll be forwarded to me. Generally, my long-winded tour, which is my typical tour, is
about an hour and a half.
Melissa Pergola: Wow.
Bill Brennan: All right. So to adequately try to cover.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: And even then, I'm not even covering everything, but, about an hour and a half is what I like to do. So it depends, but we'll accommodate anybody for any length of time.
Ray Arambula: Well, you heard it first on this podcast, make sure you get those appointments scheduled. Bill books fast. And I would advise going the long-winded route. Bill has an amazing voice—
Melissa Pergola: He does.
Ray Arambula: —a beautiful voice, actually. And speaking of, this is a great transition—
Melissa Pergola: Oh no.
Bill Brennan: I knew something was coming.
Ray Arambula: —into our game on the show.
Melissa Pergola: Kim, did you preview this?
Kim Gawler: No.
Melissa Pergola: Oh no.
Ray Arambula: So, here's what we're going to do. In this cup I have some cut up pieces of paper that have a word on them.
You each are going to pick two pieces of paper. So, you'll have two words total. And from those two words, you'll have to come up with a verse or a chorus as part of using these two words that would potentially be in a song. The thing is you have
to sing it. You obviously have a background in music.
Bill Brennan: So does Melissa.
Ray Arambula: And so does Melissa. So, pick two words.
OK, Bill, your turn. And I'll give you some time to think about what that verse or chorus looks like.
Melissa Pergola: You go first.
Ray Arambula: Wow! And she gets to say that. Pretty much.
Bill Brennan: Since you made up these rules, I'm going to change them.
Ray Arambula: Oh boy.
Bill Brennan: So, my two words are. Elvis and beach. So, I'm thinking about, geez, how do I do Blake Shelton like Elvis? Some beach, somewhere.
Melissa Pergola: Oh no.
Bill Brennan: There's a big umbrella.
Ray Arambula: I was hoping he'd go there.
Bill Brennan: On a beach, on an empty chair. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Melissa Pergola: Did you say Elvis?
Ray Arambula: That was Elvis. Yeah.
Melissa Pergola: But you didn't say Elvis. I know that.
Bill Brennan: I said I'm going to change the rules. I'm doing beach like Elvis.
Melissa Pergola: So unfair.
Bill Brennan: That's what I'm doing.
Melissa Pergola: Oh no.
Ray Arambula: But come on. That was really good.
Melissa Pergola: It was good. All right. You win. All right. But I'm going to try. I'm going to be a good sport. My two words are sunshine and sanitizer. OK. So. There is no sunshine. There is no sunshine. It is
during COVID, which doesn't seem to go away. There is no sunshine. I need some sanitizer. Oh, where, where can I
find some sanitizer?
Ray Arambula: Amazing. I don't know, Bill. We might have a new voice of an angel.
Bill Brennan: I concede. I concede.
Melissa Pergola: We'll be right back after this short message.
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Melissa Pergola: All right. So, thanks, Ray. We're going to move on now.
Ray Arambula: Let’s move on.
Melissa Pergola: Bill, we have something here called the “We See You” segment. So, kind of similar to being seen, but we want our listeners to know we see you. And so, listeners can write in to our email, which is
[email protected] or they can go to asrt.org/RADPosition and there's a form they can fill out and we ask them to ask us questions, tell us how they got into
this amazing profession. We're still waiting for a patient to write in. We would love that—
Ray Arambula: Yes.
Melissa Pergola: —right? To have a patient talk about the amazing interaction they have with one of our health care heroes.
But today we have a video question, I understand, and it is from Mark Linn. He's from Henderson, Nevada, and he also is a published author with us. He's written an article for the Scanner. So, we'll go ahead and see what his question is.
Mark Linn: My name is Mark Linn, B.A., R.T.(R)(CT). I've been a part of the ASRT since 2007. I'm part of the CT [Computed Tomography] Chapter also.
I'm a graduate of the UNLV [University of Nevada, Las Vegas] radiography program. And also, I have a bachelor’s in finance from UNLV. I decided to write this article because a lot of people in our field are skilled and knowledgeable in their
field, but when it comes to finance, a lot of people don't know how to invest, don't know how to make money work for them. Would you find that to be true? Thank you.
Melissa Pergola: So, what an interesting question, right? It is for people in our field, but I think for everyone in general, even regardless of what age you are, whether you're just starting out in your job and how do you invest
for the future and even those of us who are maybe trying to catch up so we can retire someday.
I think Mark is right. I don't think we get enough education about how do we pay attention to our finances and future. What do you all think?
Bill Brennan: I think he's right. He's definitely right. The reality is, you know, you don't learn that in school, really. Certainly not in radiology school you don't. You know, we don't have a course in that, and it's not until you
really need it that you realize, boy, I should have paid attention to this stuff. Plus, I think in our field, so many rad techs out there start in the field very early, right? So, they're in their twenties. The last thing they're thinking about
is retiring, right? So, he's absolutely correct. I think that we do need to think more about that.
Ray Arambula: Yeah, that's exactly what comes to mind for me is the time constraints. You know, you're so busy in this skilled job, and I would imagine someone younger, they're trying to prioritize their career more than their finances
at that point. So.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. What a great question, Mark. And what a good reminder. And thank you for writing the article, right? How cool is that? There's an article about it in the Scanner for our members. Something we all need
to think about. So, what a great episode, singing—
Bill Brennan: Singing. God help us.
Melissa Pergola: —and all kinds of stuff.
Bill Brennan: You know, I'm never going to get another gig. It's your fault.
Melissa Pergola: I have one more question for you. I know we're wrapping up, but you mentioned that you had done some videos. And so, as we close out, can you talk about how people can see those videos? I mean, they need to follow
our social media, right? So, tell us a little bit more about that.
Bill Brennan: So that was a COVID project actually. We would come in and we would videotape these histories about many of the artifacts and about the profession. So people can go to the museum webpage, which they can get to from the
ASRT main page. Down towards the bottom of the page are each of our subpages. One of them is the museum, and if you click on there, there's a load of content.
Artifact Alley is the series that we did. We did like eight or nine episodes, everything from the founding of the ASRT to some of that quackery stuff. So, it's a lot of fun and I think they'll enjoy it.
Melissa Pergola: Yeah. But you've had some great videos lately on social media as well that I know Kim also has produced.
Bill Brennan: She's a magician.
Melissa Pergola: Yep.
Bill Brennan: But yeah, so we've been doing a series of little, you know, video hits on each of our wonderful and amazing affiliates.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: You know, they all have their own history, almost as old as the ASRT. I was fortunate to write a book about those histories.
Melissa Pergola: Yes.
Bill Brennan: And so, you know, Kim had suggested that we highlight an affiliate every month. And so, yeah, that's a lot of fun. I love doing those.
Ray Arambula: No, thank you, Bill, for joining us. Hopefully the game wasn't too intense, and you did a great job. You really did.
Melissa Pergola: You did. You really won.
Ray Arambula: It's just Melissa did better.
Bill Brennan: I thought you were trying to grow your listenership.
Ray Arambula: Oh, yeah. We definitely did.
Bill Brennan: Yeah, OK.
Ray Arambula: Voice of an angel.
Melissa Pergola: All right. So now we're going to transition to our ASRT update, and the reason why we do this is: Don't put yourself in a bad position.
Ray Arambula: Stay up to date with “The RAD Position.”
Melissa Pergola: All right, here we go. Since 1999, the ASRT Foundation Corporate Roundtable has been a place for industry partners to join forces with ASRT to tackle common issues faced by the profession.
Corporate Roundtable participants support efforts to address the current medical imaging and radiation therapy workforce shortage and build career pathways as outlined in the white paper from the 2024 Consensus Committee. And that was the Consensus
Committee on the Future of Medical Imaging and Radiation Therapy.
And on January 22nd, 2025, the ASRT Foundation is hosting its Corporate Roundtable OEM [original equipment manufacturer] partners at the ASRT office in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And we're going to focus on how industry can support the priorities outlined
in the white paper from the Consensus Committee. This collaboration will ensure all parties of interest are contributing to the future of medical imaging and radiation therapy in the most efficient way.
Visit the News, Research and Publications section of the ASRT website to read the entire Consensus Committee white paper.
Ray Arambula: Thank you, Melissa. We can't wait to see you all next time. So don't forget to write in at [email protected] or fill out the form at asrt.org/RADPosition.
Melissa Pergola: And be sure to subscribe and share this podcast with your family, friends and colleagues. And to all our medical imaging and radiation therapy professionals, be seen—
Ray Arambula: And stay rad.